In this episode of Performance Delivered, we chat with Bryan Clayton— CEO and co-founder of Green Pal, an online marketplace that connects homeowners with lawn care professionals and has even been called the “Uber of lawn care” by Entrepreneur Magazine.If you’re wondering what else makes Bryan a valuable guest… Prior to starting Green Pal, Bryan founded Peach Tree Inc., one of the largest landscaping companies in the state of Tennessee, growing it into over 10 million/year in revenue!We’ll chat with Bryan about his origin story and how he came to be an entrepreneur, how he was turned onto the benefits of digital marketing in the early 00’s, as well as…
- Why you have to innovate in order to get ahead
- How startups should be navigating digital marketing when they’re on a tight budget
- The marketing recipe for success
- Why revenue is the best form of financing
- The get, keep, grow approach
- And more
Listen now...
Mentioned in this episode:
Transcript
Steffen Horst: Welcome to the Performance Delivered Insider Secrets for Digital Marketing Success Podcast, where we talk with marketing and agency executives and learn how they build successful businesses and personal brand. I'm your host, Steffen Horst. Today, we're going to talk about how to grow your startup with digital marketing. Here just speak with me about the topic is Bryan Clayton, the CEO and co-founder of Green Pal, an online marketplace that connects homeowners with lawn care professionals.Green Pal has been called the Uber for lawn care by Entrepreneur Magazine and has over 100,000 active users. Before starting Green Pal, Bryan founded Peach Tree Inc, one of the largest landscaping companies in the state of Tennessee, growing into over 10 million a year in annual revenue before it was acquired by Lusa Holdings in 2013. Bryan, welcome to Performance Delivered.Bryan Clayton: Hey, great to be on. Thanks for having me, Steffen. ,Steffen: So I don't know if, you know, I think you sent me that that intro like two weeks ago. So did you grow by 100,000 active users in two weeks, which would be phenomenal?Bryan: Yeah. So we actually ended last year with 100,000 and we're getting ready to close in on 200,000t this year. COVID has actually helped our business in terms of contactless ordering and people looking for a way to get this chore done, without having to meet somebody face to face. So luckily for us, this crisis has helped give us a tailwind. Kind of like, you know, Uber Eats and Doordash and Postmates are having banner years, we're kind of riding that wave.Steffen: That's good. Congratulations. Well, listen, before we go to talk about, you know, the actual topic of today's podcast, I wanted to find out a little bit more about yourself. So tell our listeners a little bit about yourself. How did you come about to found your first company, Peach Tree Inc.?Bryan: Yeah, so, lifelong entrepreneur, I've never had a job. I've always worked for myself and owned my own businesses. I was drug into entrepreneurship kicking and screaming by my father on a hot summer day when he made me go mow the neighbor's yard. He said, Hey, listen, we kind of job to do, we're gonna go cut the neighbor's grass. And the two of us went next door, and we mowed the neighbor's yard.And we made 20 bucks and split it. And I was hooked ever since then. After that, I started mowing other people's yards in the neighborhood. And by the end of that summer, I had like 10 or 12 people I was cutting grass for. And I just kept doing that through high school and all through college and stuck with that business. And actually, in college, I studied business and I developed the business plan to grow it.And over a 15-year period of time, I built that business just myself and a push mower to over 150 employees, one of the largest landscaping companies in the state of Tennessee. And after reaching about $10 million a year in revenue and growing that company to be one of the largest in our market, I decided to explore an exit and actually that business was acquired by one of the largest landscaping companies in the United States in 2013.So building that business, I learned a lot the hard way, trial and error of building a company and growing it and marketing and our sales process and then our value proposition. And I also learned how that business, how that landscaping business worked from the inside out. And after selling that company, to be honest, I kind of got bored. I took some time off. I essentially effectively retired. But I just wanted to get back in the game. I wanted to be a part of something that was growing and something that was, that I could work on and be proud of.And the idea for Green Pal came to me when I just saw what Uber and Lyft were doing for ride-sharing what Airbnb was doing for hotel accommodations. And I knew that this kind of platform, this kind of app needed to exist to make it easier for a homeowner just to find a good reliable lawn mowing service. And so I recruited two co-founders and got to work on Green Pal. Been at it for seven years.Steffen: Wow. Just going back for a second to Peach Tree, how important was digital marketing for the success of Peach Tree Inc.?Bryan: It was critical. So for us, you know, starting that business in the late 90s, early 2000s I was only 20 years old, 22 years old, 25 years old running this business and growing it, you know, from two, three people, five people 10 people. And once I got over my first 500,000 to a million dollars in revenue, I started to understand the idea of marketing and digital marketing. And back in those days, the space was very nascent.No other, none of my competitors were advertising on Google, and Facebook didn't exist. And so we decided, you know, I decided to make that our focus. Okay, how can we pop up number one every time somebody in our town or in Nashville, Tennessee is looking for a lawn mowing service?And we dominated it for many years. And that was kind of a competitive advantage of mine. And so I was able to really compete in a new channel that my competitors weren't even thinking about. And it wasn't like the key to all of our success but it was something that definitely made the phone ring for a decade. And it was one that we could kind of like rely on and then build a sales process around on how we service those calls.So it wasn't just all organic, inbound, it was okay, we've got the inbound, now we had to develop the sales process behind it to service, these clients. Learned all of that just through trial and error. And a lot of that was kind of the Wild West back then. But in a lot of things that I did back then don't work today. But it was a good lesson in the early days that search is a good channel for that for home services and particularly this type of service.Steffen: Yeah, I mean, you know, I remember those times. Those were Gold Rush times. You know, you can get bran flakes for a cent, even competitive terms. I mean, you said competitors weren't really active, which means you got really cheap clicks and the overture bid algorithm, which really helped to pay very little for a good amount of traffic that it was also quality. I mean, that was great.Bryan: Absolutely, you know, my competitors were spending literally $10,000 a month on Yellow Page advertising. And my company wasn't even in the Yellow Pages. So that was just something that, you know, I was lucky to see around that corner in 2002, 3, and then build a business around it. But nowadays, it's much, much, much different.Steffen: Yeah. And that actually, I think highlights the fact that everything changes over time, right? I mean, 15, 20 years ago, you know, you needed a much smaller budget to achieve, to generate a lot, right? Nowadays, those budgets most likely no longer enough and you have to be much more clever with your approach, right? It's not like you just spray it and then people will come. Now you have to be really targeted.Bryan: Every channel collapses over time. It doesn't matter what it is, it's always going to collapse, it's always going to get harder and harder and harder and harder. And that's why you have to innovate. And really, you know, you have to not only innovate on whatever your service and your product is, but you also have to innovate on growth and distribution.That's kind of table stakes. And, you know, the world that I'm in today, the startup world, you know, if you're a tech startup, you're gonna have to deliver some sort of unique value via your product but you're also going to have to innovate and think outside of the box on growth and marketing distribution, or else you'll never take off.Steffen: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. You mentioned earlier that you had to obviously, you know, as a young founder, no employment of other companies, you learn the hard way, from a digital marketing perspective, and I assume you were self-taught and then over the years, you kind of had to go with trial and error.Bryan: Absolutely. You know, in those early days, there were no blog posts of people talking about this stuff, there was no YouTube of digital marketers, you know, sharing their experiences, there were no online courses. There was no way to really learn this stuff other than is to get in the trenches, roll up your sleeves and figure it out. And, you know, I don't know, something about just marketing in general, that I am drawn to, I'm interested in and always have been. And I would just toil over the manuals, over the books.There's literally like books that you would read that try to learn how to make this stuff work. And that was, you know, the way you learned back then. Nowadays, you know, it's more competitive, but it's easier to learn. And so in many ways, it's more accessible today to compete and market your business digitally than it ever has been. It's just hand in hand more competitive.So I don't know which I'd rather have. I mean, you know, back then, you know, I remember one year, I remember one day, I wasn't watching what was going on and I spent like, $12,000, on clicks one day. That was back in the days, you know, like AdWords panel. In fact, I think there might even been pre AdWords, would just let you do that. Like, you can make one mistake and you could just, you could blow up 10 or $20,000 very easily if you weren't watching it. And so, yeah, that happened. And that was just kind of the tax to learn.Steffen: From a startup perspective, I would assume that as a business owner, I'm a business owner, but there always are questions of what are we focusing on next, right? Obviously, you need to focus on your business because that's kind of the basis when you're selling services or products. But then also, the question becomes, how are you promoting your service, your products efficiently? And how to split your time?And the next challenge comes, if you're a startup that is not necessarily funded, right? So when you self-funded, there most likely is not so much money available to put into marketing efforts. So what you got to do is, you know, you got to start small and put equity into it. So how should startups go about figuring out what channels work for them and what they should be focusing on in the beginning, especially if they don't have any funds available to invest?
Get, Keep, Grow
Bryan: It's an important question because it's one that many entrepreneurs find themselves in is like, what do I even focus on? There's so much to do. I have so much I need to accomplish, like, what do I even, where do I start? And so, to your point, you know, a lot of, most entrepreneurs are bootstrapping. I just typically, that's my preference. I built and sold my first company with no outside capital. Green Pals, now at $20 million a year in revenue and we haven't taken any outside capital. I believe, it's part of my philosophy that that revenue is the best form of financing.The challenge is, it does take longer and it is slower, it's not as fun and it can be harder, more difficult to do it that way, but you can build a more sustainable business. For us, we were lucky to stumble across a resource in our early days and it was a book called The Startup Owners Manual, by an author named Steve Blank. And he's kind of hand in hand with the author Eric Reese, who wrote The Lean Startup. And in that book, there is a heuristic, a little methodology called Get, Keep, Grow. And so if you're an entrepreneur in the early days, you're really kind of focusing your time across those three buckets of get, keep, grow.So get is how the hell are we going to get our first dozen, 50, 100 customers? Whatever, by any means necessary, we got to get our first hundred. And then once we get those first hundred, how are we going to keep them? We got to work on the product. We got to work on the service. We got to figure out how we stand out in the competitive landscape. What is our value proposition? Do we even know? How are we faring against our competitors? And what is it that we're doing different and better than them?And like, that's maybe like, if you want to look at days of the week, maybe two or three days is on get in two or three days is on keep. And then the rest of the time, the other seven or hopefully eight or nine days of the week, because you're putting in hours, is on grow. It's how do we leverage these first hundred people that we're keeping and leveraging them to grow by way of referrals, by way of working their networks? And it doesn't matter what business you're in, this heuristic can apply to how you delegate your time in the early days, which is critical.Because if you focus only on getting people and getting customers to try it, but you have a crappy product, you're just going to flush them all down the drain. It's going to be like pouring gasoline on wet leaves. You're not ever going to take off. But if you can, like, you can allocate your time across those three disciplines and focus on where you need to focus your time, then you can manufacture some momentum in those early days. And then you've got a little bit of a money printing press where you make $1 and if it takes $5 to buy a new customer, you make $5, buy a new customer, make money, rinse and repeat.Steffen: Now, in a lot of cases that people start businesses, they're not necessarily marketing professionals, right. So for them, you know, to learn what they have to do and how to do it right is going to be costly from a time perspective, but also in a certain way, they will have to pay for it because when they give up time to do the marketing part to learn, they can't do other things. Does it make sense from a company configuration perspective to maybe bring in early on maybe a co-founder or co-owner, however you want to label that person, that has that marketing knowledge?Bryan: Yeah, I think so. I think the ideal, so I think most business owners approach this as I'm going to start a business or I'm going to build a product, doesn't matter what you're doing, I'm going to open up a restaurant or I'm going to start a new app or whatever. And then I'm going to build it, get it going.And then I'm going to sprinkle some marketing on top at the end. And that's not really a recipe for success. You have to be thinking about marketing and growth and distribution as you're building the product, as you're starting the business because it's table stakes, you're going to have to not only like I mentioned earlier, is like half of the battle is delivering a better solution to a problem than your competitors are but the other half is innovating on how you're going to get the word out and how you're going to distribute that product or service.And so like, let's say if you want to say okay, well then I need a co-founder, well, maybe, or maybe not. But if you do, it kind of helps if you have a hacker and a hustler. Like somebody that knows, like the technical aspect of it and then the hustler is the person that is going to make the phone ring.And if those two people come together, it can be deadly. But you don't necessarily have to have a hustler. I mean, I have to have a co-founder, but you kind of need to be both of those. You need to be part hacker, part hustler. And when I say hacker, that applies to just whatever it is that of building the product or service that you're trying to bring to market. It's kind of like you got to be half in half, and especially in the early days, on innovating on the solution to the problem and then innovating on distribution.Steffen: I mean, there's so many channels, obviously, or digital marketing solutions that one needs to consider when offering a product or service. Is there kind of a ready to take out of a drawer, a plan for startups that says, first do this, take this channel, then do this channel, then do this, that people can just adjust? Or is it more it depends on the business? It depends on your target audience, etc?
Where to Start Your Trial and Error Processes
Bryan: Yeah, there's definitely no one size fits all, in my experience. Now that said, there's probably like six channels that you can experiment in to see if they're a good fit for your business. And so it might be that, you know, if you're selling a b2b product, that LinkedIn is the best channel for you to buy ads.But it also could be that if you've got a new fashion brand that Instagram is going to be or Tik Tok is going to be the best channel for you. If you're in the home services space, like we are, as it turns out, Google organic search is the best channel that we can bet on. And so in those early days, you really kind of need to quickly experiment in each that makes sense and then figure out okay, this one is showing promise, and then double down and put all of your way into that one channel.Because it's rare that any early-stage company or startup is good at more than one channel. You're probably going to dominate one channel if you're going to make it because it just takes so much of your bandwidth to be successful in that channel. For us, we bet very early on, on organic Google search as our channel. And even to this day, we get over half of our users through just people searching in Google coming across a landing page of ours.They never heard of Green Pal but they just try it out because it seems to have a solution to their problem. And so for us, we made that bet really early because we saw good signs and good early indications that it was the right move. But if we had chosen wrong, if we had bet at all on, I don't know, Twitter ads, or Pinterest ads or Facebook ads, we may not be here today. We may could have run out of gas already.Steffen: Is there a way, or how would you recommend people to identify those five, six channels that they should test, put a little of, not all eggs in one basket but slice the egg and put it into five to baskets, how can they identify those five, six channels that they should try? How would you go about that?Bryan: So one of my favorite quotes is by a famous venture capitalist, his name is Ben Horowitz and he says fire bullets then cannonballs. So what you do is you set up those test campaigns. And so let's say that you are starting a home construction business in San Francisco, California, but you are building maybe your, maybe you're building these houses out of those big storage containers. And so that's your angle. And so you want to really figure out how the hell am I going to get leads for people to call me to build them a custom house built out of these materials?Well, the first thing you would do is you would need to set up some sort of website, landing page that is communicating your value proposition, communicating why somebody should do business with you and why somebody should choose your product over their competitors. And that's like needs to be a lot of times we thought about that. Then, very simply, you can buy traffic to that and figure out what is converting.So maybe one week, you say okay, I'm gonna spend 500 or $1,000 on Facebook ads this week, targeting the types of ideal candidates that I think would make good customers for my business. And just see if I can get any of them just to click the button on the landing page or maybe just click to call me. And then you just repeat that over all the paid channels that you could whether it be Google AdWords, whether it be Twitter ads, Pinterest ads, you know, Instagram ads, and this just runs through the whole gambit.And you don't have to like, you know, experiment in every single one of them but maybe in the ones that this makes sense to you. And then as you're doing that, you need to really figure out okay, if I'm going to compete in organic search, meaning like not necessarily paid, you know, pay per click, you might develop the best guide for how to build this type of home in this type of market. And it literally has to be the best on the internet for this type of person that you're trying to reach.And seeing if Google can pick that up and if Google will reward that on for those search queries. And doing both of those in tandem will tell you real quick within a matter of a month or three months, which channel might be the best fit for your startup and firing those bullets before you fire cannonballs is really a difference between winning and losing in the early days because if you go down the wrong path and you bet the company on the wrong channel, you're probably gonna run out of money and just quite frankly, run out of steam.Steffen: Yeah, I think another element probably to add to this is kind of understanding your target audience, right? When you build a product, when you build a service, you have an audience in mind for that. And with knowing your target audience, that allows you to look at, you know, where is your target audience?
Pinpointing Your Target Audience
Bryan: Yes, that's exactly right. And then the other thing is, too is you may find out you are wrong about that. That happened to our company in the early days. When we first launched the first version of our product, we thought that people who would want to hire a lawn mowing service via mobile app or on the internet would be people living in, you know, the higher-end parts of town, million dollar plus homes. And what we came to learn through trial and error and doing exactly what I was just describing marketing to these zip codes, was that that was not actually our ideal candidate.The person who would get the most value out of a service like ours was really the working-class professionals, or dual-income households, people that were living on the working-class side of town. Because quite frankly, they're just too busy to cut their own grass. And that our software, our platform, through its competitive bidding, would make it more accessible, more cost-effective. And so what we came to find over six, through six months of trial and error in the early days was like, okay, it's not the affluent part of towns.It's actually the working-class part of town that loves our product because typically, a lawn mowing service is 50 bucks, and we're able to deliver it for 33. And the end, the service provider's still making money at that because we eliminate a lot of the headache of having to acquire that customer and get paid for that customer. And so that's really where our value proposition resonates. And that was something that we were open to learning about and open to, like discovering those insights in the early days because we didn't know.You come to the situation with a lot of assumptions, but you have to test and validate those. And so yeah, understanding your audience is critical. And then also being adaptable to listen to the feedback of the market and studying how your experiments are working to understand, okay, it's actually not this user segment, it's these folks that I really can help and then doubling down on that once you figure that out.Steffen: I think you just, you know, although we didn't directly talk about it, but I think you made an important point here of data at the end, right? When you do online advertising, obviously, you collect a lot of data. So it's not only about what channels etc. But the data that you collect while running these test campaigns, they can inform additional steps, not only from a marketing perspective, but also from a business perspective, right? Because when you said, you know, in the beginning after the million dollar plus homes and owners, your messaging is different to when you're going after the working-class target audience, so to speak.Bryan: Absolutely. And to that point, I think it's good to have a good balance of intuition and gut feel and just, it's like having a bias towards action but also being informed by some kind of data that can help you tilt the odds in your favor. Because, you know, you can skew towards one side of the spectrum and almost get paralyzed by data and not take any action and that's not good either.And then you can just like go like based off of your preferences and like off of your gut and that may not be good either. Because at the end of the day, if you're not making decisions that's driven by some kind of quantitative data, then really, it's just opinions. And really, you know, if you make the right call, it could just be luck that you're on the right track because even me, like I've spent my entire life in the lawn mowing industry. It's the only industry I've ever worked in.And I'm still proven wrong about things that I thought were true in terms of consumer decision making and buyer behavior that I thought would be the case that just aren't. And I had these biases that I was approaching the situation from that were proven wrong with data. And so there's a healthy balance of having a bias towards action and going with your gut, but also being guided by some type of qualitative and quantitative data to help tilt the odds in your favor that you're making the right call.Steffen: Yeah. Bryan, you mentioned a few times search engine optimization in what you just said. How important is that for a business? And when should startups decide to allocate efforts to SEO, search engine optimization?
When to Start Optimizing Search as a Startup
Bryan: Yeah, I think for some businesses, it's crucial that they try to compete in search. And then I think for other businesses, it may not be as important. Let's say if you have a fashion brand, for instance, and let's just say like you're marketing a certain type of shoe to a certain type of consumer that's got a certain type of tastes. Writing blog posts about that may not be the best strategy. It might just be best to like, try to be a tastemaker on Instagram. That's a better fit for that type of business. But let's say you have like a marketplace like ours, like Green Pal.Search and organic traffic is going to be critical to the survivability of that business because you really can't afford to pay for every single visit. You can't afford to pay for every user that's going to come to the front door. You're going to have to have some organic traffic come to your property for a low marginal cost. And if not, you're not going to make it because you can't afford to pay for all the traffic to build the buyers and sellers and build the liquidity to make that type of product work. So searches, I think table stakes for certain types of business and in for others, it doesn't matter as much.And I see it quite a bit as I'm talking with up and coming startups and other entrepreneurs is that they think they need to compete and search when they really don't. It's not that important. They actually need to be building like a sales team. And they actually need, or they need to be figuring out how to like win at Snapchat or something like that. So it just depends on what you're doing. And a lot of that could be informed by early experiments in the first three to six months of starting your business.Steffen: You know, very early in our conversation, we talked about that, or I asked you about whether it would make sense for a startup, a founder to get a co-founder or someone else in that does marketing. Want to come back to that. And how should, or who should be in charge of digital marketing in the startup? Are there specific people that you think about that should lead that? How much involvement should the owner have in marketing?Bryan: So for a startup or any small business just getting started, I think it's a mistake for a founder and a co-founder or two co-founders to come together and say we'll hire a marketer to take care of that. I think that's a mistake because it's kind of like delegating it from a weak position. I think in the early days, whether you're a solo founder or you have one or two co-founders, either yourself or somebody on the team has to own and live and die by marketing and growth because it's just critical to the business. That the, building the business in such a way that is going to attract customers is table stakes.It doesn't matter how good the product or the service is, if it's not built in such a way where you can market it and it will grow on its own, then you probably aren't going to make it. And so I'm biased towards this, but it's my gut, like, I feel like the CEO and the founder need to study marketing, they need to be the CMO, if you will, in their early days, and maybe even for many years, the CEO needs to be in charge of growth because it's just so critical to the business's survivability.Yeah, they need to care and be involved in all the other aspects of the business too, whether it be writing of code, or whether it be customer service, or whether it be, you know, of course, overall strategy, but like being in charge of growth is just so critical because it actually requires all facets of the business to come together for it to be effective.You know, I am, I lead our growth team. Here we have a team of five people. And so for us to execute on growth, we have to have an engineer, we have to have a designer, we have to have a copywriter, we have to have a data analyst and all these people have to like, work together and they have to get together and like, and then we have to have somebody who guides them on what the hell it is we're doing. That's me. And all of these disciplines have to come together to execute on growth and marketing. And I think that's why the CEO needs to own it in the early days.Steffen: Yeah. Bryan, we're coming to the end of our podcast episode today. But before, you know, I'll let you go, my question is, you know, there's always the question, how much of digital marketing should be managed in-house at a startup or at a company? And how much should you potentially outsource, get a marketing agency or whatever agency fulfills the service that you need help with? What's your view on that? How much are you keeping in-house? How much would you recommend keeping in-house and what areas would you recommend an outside partner should take care of?
When to Keep Operations In-House
Bryan: Yeah. Okay, so kind of a nuanced answer to that, if you're a startup and you're just starting from scratch, I think everything needs to be in-house in early days so you can learn how to do these things. Whether it be Managing a Google AdWords account, managing a Facebook ads account, executing a backlinking acquisition strategy to boost up your SEO, all of these things need to be done in-house for a little while so you can understand the complexities of how they work and the mechanics of how they work.So then, and only then you can delegate them. Because if you delegate these things too soon, and you delegate them before you understand the mechanics of how they work, then you're delegating from a standpoint of abdication. You're like, Oh, I don't want to do that, or I'm not good at that. Therefore, I'm going to like, hire this agency to do it. And then you won't, quite frankly, really know what the hell is going on. You don't know if you're getting good ROI, you don't know if you have the right agency, you don't know if you have good practitioners on your campaign.You really, just to put it bluntly, can't call bs on what's happening. But if you execute these things, like self-execute them for a while, then you can delegate from a position of authority. You can be a steward of these things and say, Okay, yeah, no, I've ran our Google AdWords campaign, I know that these taglines, this copy converts better. And, you know, we're paying, you know, $120 to acquire a customer, we'd like to get that down to 90. I've taken this as far as I can.You know, I've read these 10 blog posts from this agency and here's some cool things they're doing that I never thought of and they're kind of executing at a higher level than I can. So I'm gonna work with them for three months, see what happens and treat it as an experiment. Like, that's a much better way to approach that dynamic that's saying, okay, we need customers. Go hire this PPC company and let's hope for the best.Steffen: Yeah, that allows you to call BS, right? When someone comes along and says Oh, yeah, we can do X, Y, Z. And if you don't know that topic, if you are not having at least a basic understanding of it, it's so easy to fall into a trap of a bad provider. But if you have the knowledge, you will be much better off.Bryan: And if you don't know, it'll take you six months to learn that you made a mistake. And in the first two or three years of a business, that can be the difference between success and failure.Steffen: Yeah, yeah. Well, listen, Bryan, thank you so much for joining me on the Performance Delivered Podcast and sharing your thoughts on how to grow a startup with digital marketing. I really enjoyed our conversation. If people want to find out more about you and your company, Green Pal, how can they get in touch?Bryan: Yeah, so anybody listening to this that doesn't want to waste time cutting their own grass, they can just download Green Pal in the App Store or the Play Store. They'll get hooked up with a good lawn mowing service in less than a minute. Anybody that is an entrepreneur, slugging it out and wants to reach out to me, you can just email me bryan@yourgreenpal.com and put me on second or third base on what your question is, and I can just give you an answer based on my experience.Steffen: Great. Thanks, everyone for listening. If you like the Performance Delivered Podcast, please subscribe to us and leave us a review on iTunes or your favorite podcast application. If you want to find out more about Symphonic Digital, you can visit us at symphonicdigital.com or follow us on Twitter at Symphonic HQ. Thanks again and see you next time.
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